For me personally I have always been fascinated with Internal Martial Arts. Through my own research I have seen some pretty silly things and heard some outrageous claims. People tend to listen to people’s opinions rather than facts.
You will hear stories about someone somewhere doing something amazing and that story is passed along from person to person and by the time that story gets out it really had nothing to do with the reality of the event.
Maybe when you where a kid, you remember your teacher lining everyone up and telling a story to one of the kids and it was each kids job to pass along the story until it gets to the last kid.
By the time the story got to the last kid the details of the story have changed and in some cases it’s not even the same story.
I feel this is the case for internal martial arts (Soft Styles).
…NOT ONLY THAT
Words! They matter. In the video you are about to watch Sifu Phu, he uses the words (Absorb and Convert). Personally I see them as the same. However, I understand from Sifu Phu’s point of view they are not the same.
One creates a situation where you are mentally telling yourself to collapse your energy (absorb) while the other word suggest not collapsing rather (convert) the energy.
Ask Sije Jamie I am bad with words, there are many times where I use words incorrectly according to a dictionary. I do try and slow my mind down and think about what I want to say before I say it.
With that said, I have always been good at understanding what someone is saying simply by listening to the totality of what they are saying and not focusing so much on specific things that are said. (That’s for another story though.)
The video you just watched has drawn some controversy on some social media sites. Some folks instead of listening to what Sifu Phu is saying, simply looked at the headline (SOFT STYLES DON’T WORK) and that’s all they needed to draw a conclusion.
I was drawn to learning from Sifu Phu because his focus has always been combat. Real fighting isn’t like sports fighting. Even this fact is argued over online. After putting in the time to learn martial arts, you can unwind by playing games such as dadu online.
I effectively use Tai Chi, which is considered a soft style in my martial art. It’s because I physically understand the difference between absorbing and converting. It has been my own experience that it’s not what your educated mind understands that matters in a fight. It’s what your physical body feels that matters most. (I could write all day just about that.)
…Your Turn!
What is your opinion of soft martial art styles?
Clint C says
I’ve always understood soft/internal styles as ones based on structure and redirection of force whereas hard/external styles are based on strength and momentum. Most fighting arts contain aspects of both. Hard/external styles are easy to learn, apply, and excel at while you have athleticism but as you age your performance suffers. Soft/internal styles take much longer to learn and apply effectively but your skills continue to get better over time and any athleticism you have makes your skills much more efficient. Hard styles for 6 months or soft styles for 6 years. Depends on what your personal goals are.
Sifu Larry Rivera says
I like the way you put it. I like to say, that training in hard styles is like training to be a marine. The purpose of a marine is to basically charge. Lot’s of marines die pretty quickly in large scale attacks.
Where as training and understanding softer approaches is like training in internal styles is like training for the special forces. To become proficient in things like Tai Chi requires more time and patience. Anyone can pull a trigger and anyone can punch and kick. Not everyone has the patience to feel…
larry braniff says
Totally agree.
Jonathan Weitz says
As an older student (74yrs old) I do not have the recuperation and as a result the strength of my younger days (up to about 64 I felt I was a lot stronger and focused on hard styles). For the last 4 years I have been immersed in Tai Chi by a teacher for whom Tai Chi is his life. He appears soft when attacked but effortlessly moves attacks aside and unbalances his opponent. He emphasizes extreme detail, structure, breathing and understanding how to apply the movements. I think you both are using the same underlying concepts except you explain it more in terms of physics.
What I like about your attack philosophy is that it can overcome someone who is really a lot heavier and stronger than yourself. We do some boxing and I do okay against even fairly skillful opponents but someone who is just big and aggressive with a longer reach where it feels like I take more punishment than my opponent makes me feel my age. If I close the distance I do a lot better as this opponent is clumsy but I tend to lose my composure and my energy lags.
Anyway I am getting better and your approach to jabs seems to be what I need to perfect – regular boxing seems to fail against really bigger opponents.
Thanks.
Sifu Larry Rivera says
Thanks for sharing Jonathan, often when a person starts loosing their composure and energy starts to lag it’s because they became un synced with their breathing. Next time you are boxing take notice of your breathing. When you feel yourself loosing composure focus your mind on your breath syncing your body and breathing again.
I will be putting up how to do our NDN jab in your training vault soon.
larry braniff says
Hey Jonathan, good for you in your training. I am 71 and still practice and teach both Taijiquan and Karate. I started Karate in the 60’s and have trained in Tai Chi since I was 61. I have found that the understanding of Taiji has greatly helped my Karate practice/teaching especially at my age. Keep it up.
larry braniff says
Semantics are always a problem when breaking down these kinds of issues. I am a firm believer in reconciling “external systems” with “internal systems”. Two things jump out at me after listening to Sifu Phu. First, the terms “hard” style vs “soft” style are inaccurate by my training. Internal systems like Taijiquan, BaguaZahng and XingYi Quan are internally trained but that is often mistaken as “soft”. So again it may be simply semantics but the premise in my opinion is flawed. Next, NEVER have I ever been instructed to ABSORB force or energy in my internal training. Redirecting, deflecting of energy is taught but never absorbing. We have a saying, 1 ounce can move 1000lbs. I think this may be what Sifu Phu may be referring to in different words. The internal systems put a HUGE emphasis on correct structure thus developing internal power from training from the inside out as opposed to external which trains the muscles from the outside in. THAT is basically the only difference between external martial arts and internal martial arts. In Chinese internal systems Fa Jing power is very powerful in strikes and kicks. Many people do not realize that “real Taijiquan” uses strikes, kicks, throws, foot sweeps etc. This is not taught by many Tai Chi schools these days. One must find an old school instructor to learn this kind of technique in Taijiquan. Forms are only the alphabet to learning Tai Chi much like the tip of the ice berg. I train and teach both Taijiquan and Karate and have found that my taijiquan training has greatly enhanced my Karate in terms of usage of energy to re-direct rather than to meet with head on force like many Karate systems teach. THIS type of training is actually what attracted me to Sifu Phu. I believe his usage of energy is exactly what I am attempting to reconcile with Taiji and Karate. I am curious as to the Facebook comments that Sifu Larry referred to. As I suggested, semantics can create great misunderstandings. Thank you, Larry
Sifu Larry Rivera says
Hey Larry, I syndicate our youtube videos all over the social network spectrum. So you can find our content on pinterest, tumbler, instagram, twitter on 3 accounts, facebook in about a dozen different groups, I just included tiktok to the mix of all that. So What I am referring too is generalizing different comments coming in from people all over the net.
I also agree that training in Tai Chi will increase a persons skill in any other martial art.
“As I suggested, semantics can create great misunderstandings. ”
I absolutely agree with this statement.
John M says
Ok ive listened to sifu talk about this a few times i understand what he is saying. Also and maybe im wrong here but i take it as after u meet someone with hardness and connect to them when its time to comform and control because we use arching spiraling motions to not go directly against the force to control than u can be less tense abd relaxed when converting or turning the difference thats being soft or empty but on first contact u must meet with hardness and keep c.op. and when converting since ur not fighting u can be soft or empty and relaxed. There is alot to learn about energy and internal arts gets a bad rap cause people dont really understand internall energy mostly cause people teach it wrong. Sifu phu is an excellent teacher and sifu larry u give us the perspective of a student and teacher although cause u concentrated on being a great student and a student for life youve become a great teacher as well. Thats what we need someone whos gone through the process. Im still learning and just when i think i know something i learn more about it and have a deeper understanding that theres so much more to learn. God bless
Sifu Larry Rivera says
Thanks John, sounds about right. I remember back when I was a sophomore in high school and I failed english and literature the first time around. Then next year I repeated the class with a different teacher and I literally got an A every semester in his class.
The reason was because one teacher was trying to force me to learn the way she wanted me to learn. The other teacher listened to me and taught me in a way that I understood and was interested. Years later I wrote the teacher who’s class I aced and thanked him for being a good teacher and taking the time to teach me.
Sifu Phu taught me things he never taught anyone else and I am sure he has taught others things he never taught me. I don’t think I have ever taught 2 private students the same. This is because all of us are unique individuals and we all learn differently. That’s why I am not really a fan of public classes because we don’t all learn the same.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts π
Edward Kees says
Two things. I agree that sports fighting and real fighting are not the same thing. While they both involve physical contact, one major difference is sports fighting has rules, while anything goes in a real life situation.
Next, I heard a martial artist once say that there’s a difference between soft and internal styles, but people tend to put the two of them together. Do you or any of your colleagues agree with that? If so, what are the differences?
Sifu Larry Rivera says
From my own experience during my time doing security for a night club. I worked along side people who had different martial backgrounds than me. Besides rules the real difference is at the end of the day in the ring any ring chances of getting out of the fight alive is pretty good.
The first day I started working at the night club, the guy i was paired with was putting on a bullet proof vest. It was then that my mind switched to a pure survival mode vs I am getting ready to fight someone.
all my senses where on heightened alert.
I believe that if a person trains hard enough and long enough they will come to the conclusion that soft style, hard style etc doesn’t matter. Ultimately the end result is always the same. I think this was what Bruce Lee was trying to say when he said,
Our golden rule is obey the energy. This means do what is the right thing to do in the moment you need to. That could hard, soft or both.
Edward Kees says
I agree. I’m a firm believer in doing what works for you or using what works at that particular moment. I don’t get caught up in styles either–to me, it’s not the style, but the individual–I was asking out of curiosity.
Sifu Larry Rivera says
Cool man!
Dan N says
Personally, I think the word soft is miss leading. many years ago when I first started training in Ti Chi, a light (soft) touch from my teacher, would throw me off balance. Partly due to my inability to root at the time, combined with his skill level. When I asked him about internal energy, his answer was, that it was precise bio mechanics.
Sifu Larry Rivera says
“precise Bio Mechanics” sounds about right. π
larry b says
Your teacher was right. Another concept that is misunderstood is Qi (Chi/Ki). It isΒ not a magical force provided by the universe, it is exactly what you said, biomechanics/physics that is made stronger and stronger with CORRECT teaching and practice/training.
Greg says
I think what Sifu is saying makes perfect sense. How could one absorb the energy of an attack and not be damaged by it? It might be fun to fantasize that you could absorb the energy and send it to the lower dantien for storage…. Imagine! Getting stronger by taking a beating… That would be superhuman.
Sifu Larry Rivera says
lols.. Right!
Steve Brown says
I really appreciate Sifu Pho. Application is the evidence of learning and the way he applies what he discusses makes so much sense. Iβm still amazed at how one as young as he appears holds so much mature knowledge. His teacher ( I believe it is his Grandfather?) really built an incredible foundation in him. Good job Larry! Iβve watched you (thru internet) grow as well! Blessings!
Sifu Larry Rivera says
Thanks Steve!
Pam says
I love this Sifu Larry, it’s a great article and a great video! Sifu Phu is so great at explaining this stuff.
I have always loved the softer styles of fighting because even when I was younger and at my peak strength I knew when it comes to a battle I was almost always fighting some one that was bigger, stronger & often faster than me.
Absorb versus Convert makes all the sense in the world.
I’ve always known that the so-called soft styles of fighting were my best chance because they would use my opponents strength against them. But, most schools try to make that mean all sorts of mumble jumble and nonsense because they don’t know how to really do it, or they don’t want to show you how if they do. So people end up believing really crazy stuff about internal fighting styles.
I love how Sifu Phu keeps it real. He can do that because he know how to do it and how to teach it. When I use the stuff I learn from him it works. Period. Even on muscle bound knuckleheads π
Sifu Larry Rivera says
Good to hear from you Pam. π
It’s true, it’s been my experience that there are many people who think they are teaching effective internal martial arts but are missing the mark for sure.
Errol Stapleton says
Sifu Larry, you are right. I have seen this video most recently, and I agree with everything that Sifu Phu says. I understand it completely. This is not the first time he has mentioned this. The thing is, If you are a first time student in Martial Art/Kung Fu. You will learn the mechanics or physical attributes of the External Martial Arts first. As you advance throughout your training, you should then be trained in the attributes required for the Internal Martial Arts which work directly with the External Martial Arts such as breathing, relaxation, concentration, blood flow, energy, Mind-set, focus etc. Both these things take years to learn, let alone master. Using the right kind of techniques will allow you to connect the internal with the physical/external so that you can develop the other attributes such as timing, accuracy, speed, power and focus etc. I understand Internal and External, but the moment people mention hard styles and soft styles. It takes on a whole different meaning which confuses some/most people. for example, based on just visual content, people look at Karate as a hard style because it’s a very Linear and aggressive form of combat which, involves punches and kicks, whereas, Aikido maybe considered a soft style simply because it uses mostly circular motion with no kicks or punches. In a real fight, style doesn’t matter, it’s how you control the energy behind what you do. The combination of your mass and your drive is your force (hard), using spirals, circular/arching movements via the wrist (conversion) is your soft. This is what Ying and Yang is all about. In a real street fight, you cannot be all hard. If the person is bigger and stronger then you, Then you’ve got a problem. That’s force against force. At the other extreme, you cannot be all soft, you’ll collapse under the pressure, you’ll get killed. You have to balance both and learn to develop the ability to change and adapt in any combat situation.
Sifu Larry Rivera says
Thanks for sharing! π